27. Unlocking Potential with Kelsey Kitsch
EPISODE 27
Kelsey Kitsch’s journey showcases bold decision-making and adaptability. From Ivy Business School to ventures in land development and psychedelic research, her “why not try?” mindset highlights the value of seizing opportunities and aligning passions with skills. By navigating challenges with resilience, she offers inspiration and practical wisdom for aspiring entrepreneurs.
Catch the Conversation
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Kelsey Kitsch has founded, scaled and consulted to businesses across diverse industries:
heavy civil infrastructure
master planned communities
psychedelic drug development
digital therapeutics
...and every time uses the same approach and skills: connect with individuals to build trust, build teams and align them on a vision we hold for the future which involves new solutions executed on today.
Simply put, Kelsey is a visionary who inspires with integrity and builds trust, resulting in the formation of world class teams that together, deliver results.
Kelsey speaks on the future of work at the intersection of psychedelics and culture. She takes consulting work on a sharp shooter basis. She sits on two non-profit boards- both squarely focussed on healing people and the planet.
As her passion project, she is devoting time to a women in psychedelics documentary project this year.
Connect with Kelsey through LinkedIn.
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Julie and Kelsey discuss...
(00:00:04) Women Entrepreneur Success Stories(00:08:45) Diverse Career Paths With Creativity
(00:15:35) Navigating Entrepreneurial Challenges and Success
(00:25:26) Navigating Entrepreneurial Transitions
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Julie: 0:04
Welcome to Figure Eight, where we feature inspiring stories of women entrepreneurs who have grown their businesses to seven and eight figures revenue. If you're in the mix of growing a bigger business, these stories are for you. Join us as we explore where the tough spots are, how to overcome them and how to prepare yourself for the next portion of the climb. I'm your host, Julie Ellis. I'm an author, entrepreneur and a growth and leadership coach who co-founded, grew and exited an eight-figure business. This led me to exploring why some women achieve great things, and that led to my book Big, gorgeous Goals. Let's explore the systems, processes and people that help us grow our businesses to new heights. If you're interested in growing your business, this podcast will help. Now let's get going.
Julie: 1:05
Hello and welcome to this episode of Figure Eight. Today, my guest is Kelsey Kitsch, and Kelsey has had a great journey as an entrepreneur, landing as Canada's number one woman entrepreneur for a time, as well as being involved with some really interesting companies, from building roads to building mental health, wellness and being involved in that industry to a lot of other really great ideas she's had for businesses, some of which have gone and some of which have not. She is a big thinker, a visionary and someone who inspires with her integrity. She builds trust with her teams. She creates visions that make people want to follow her, and I am thrilled to call her my friend and to have her here today as my guest. Welcome, Kelsey.
Kelsey: 1:59
It's so good to be here, Julie. I'm A honored but B. It's so great to be able to talk to a friend who knows all of the backstories of all of these businesses as well, so we can really dive into like the nitty gritty without a whole lot of preamble.
Julie: 2:15
Yeah, and I love the sort of eclectic part of your journey because I I feel like my journey has been eclectic and and I really love to get to sort of the gold of like what did that mean for you, how does it make you different and you know, why has it made you successful ultimately? Um, so diving in a little bit. Um, you've got an interesting kind of journey to getting your MBA and I do love your story about how you got accepted to to an MBA program that was very prestigious.
Kelsey: 2:53
Okay, well, I'll leave with that, so everybody can feel very comfortable knowing I'm not the smartest person in the room. I applied to every MBA school in Canada there are 13, or there were at the time and I remember the very first envelope. I got back this skinny little envelope from the University of Saskatchewan and I was like this does not look good for a lot of the other universities. And, long story short, I got a big, thick envelope from Ivy, which is the MBA school at Western, and my immediate thought was oh my gosh, they've made a mistake. I had better send them my deposit ASAP, because you know they're going to quickly find out. I'm not meant to be here. But long story short, I wound up going there and in the hallway one day someone stopped me and said Kelsey Kitsch, I remember your application, can I talk to you for a second? And I thought, for sure, that was a moment that the gig was up. They were going to say, like we did make a mistake, it's time to go home.
Kelsey: 3:45
And, as it turns out, um, this woman happened to walk into the admissions room and see my application on the top of the no pile, but there was a drawing on the covering letter of it, as opposed to the typical, you know, covering letter. So she picked it up and read it and told the admissions committee that they should let me in off the wait list if someone didn't take their spot. So I got in on the very final day that you can get in and I drove up to Ontario and the reason that she let me in was this drawing was about relating myself to the universe. It was a picture of the universe interstitial, and I talked about myself all the way from just being human right down to what really makes me me and how I'll show up in the MBA class and always in my business, going forward as someone of high integrity and a lot of passion. And that's how I made it in.
Kelsey: 4:41
You know Hail Mary, but I think a lot of my success has been throwing Hail Marys and thankfully people have received them.
Julie: 4:50
Yeah, well, and it's like you know the Hail Mary, or like, how do you, how do you find the luck along the way? And take it and like, bring it with the hard work and make something from it you
Kelsey: 5:03
I think one of the things that I have found absolutely and I'm just as scared. You know, I think one of the things that I have found absolutely and I'm just as scared as everyone else. I think there's also this impression about me like I'm just out there, no worries, no troubles, but I'm terrified most of the time and I often think, like if I don't ask, it's a standing no. So what's the harm in making an effort? Um, and certainly applying to ivy, was that like it was 250, I thought it might as well. It just burned, but had I not tried it, I would have never got a yes. So I always say to people you know like you're giving yourself a no without giving it a try, and yeah.
Julie: 5:46
Yeah, it's so. Yeah, it is that I say it often like no's are free. I mean, maybe they were $250 in this case, but like, really like, if you don't ask, you don't ever know if you'll get a yes.
Kelsey: 6:02
Yeah, I was going to say I found that with team building, you know, like if we want to jump forward into that a little bit and we'll go in a bit of a circle, but I have hired so many people to join my teams that I would have absolutely assumed they were a no, but I have always stuck with my own dogma of give them the opportunity to say no.
Kelsey: 6:26
You know, I remember sending a LinkedIn message to a woman who was formerly with Headspace, which is like a big meditation app, and she was a head of product and science, and there was no good reason that, a she would even open it, b she would take the three minutes to read this whole thing that I wrote, and C she might even respond. And within I think about two hours, she responded and agreed to a meeting and then ultimately she became my chief on a digital therapeutics program in a totally different industry, and we poached her. Like I, to this day, I still cannot believe that happened. But what I didn't know was what was going on for her in her background. Right, she was unhappy, she was looking for something new. She didn't want to put it on her LinkedIn that she was looking. And here I come in her inbox just with the right thing at the right time, a little bit like divine intervention, um. So again, just like, give people the opportunity to say no or yes. Don't steal them from the opportunity to believe in you.
Julie: 7:29
Yeah, I think that's such a great point because, you really do. You cut yourself off from possibility.
Kelsey: 7:39
And everyone likes a surprise, Everyone likes to feel wanted, Everyone likes you know something to come in where they say I really noticed you, I've been paying attention, what you do matters and I'd love for you to join us. And that's rare. Usually it's the other way around. Usually it's you know, we're out there looking for the opportunity or we're waiting for someone to call us and dah, dah, dah. And there's nothing quite as good as, you know, being a surprise in someone's inbox to say, hey, I took the effort to come to understand you. I'd really like you to join us.
Julie: 8:12
Yeah, I think that that's a really great point is that we don't ask.
Kelsey: 8:20
I love asking.
Julie: 8:21
I know it's great. It makes me think about your kind of eclectic path of entrepreneurship in terms of like industries and roles that you've had, and so can you walk us a little bit through the various things that you've done, because I have a few questions for you about how that's shaped where you are today?
Kelsey: 8:44
Sure. So after I finished my MBA, for a very brief period I became a management consultant because I thought that's what all good MBAs should do. And I remember about six months in looking at my boss and thinking, if I had $100 to put on her or me, who would I put it on to determine my future? So I quit the beginning of, I think, this kind of eclectic thing and the only thing I knew how to do was to build roads, because I'd worked construction throughout high school, etc. Putting my way through uni. So I called some people that I used to work with and said will you work for me? And starts up a construction company. And then, by virtue of being in that, starts up a land development business. And then after that I had to run, probably five years too early, with box toys, like it's all a very big deal now, but back in 2010, was it Nine? It really wasn't.
Kelsey: 9:38
And then after the box toy no the subscription box era.
Julie: 9:42
Yes, you were ahead of the curve on the subscription box era.
Kelsey: 9:46
Yes, that's absolutely true. And then after that I wrote a book and did some speaking because I'd won these awards the top female entrepreneur stuff and then I started a psychedelic drug research company that I subsequently took public, and so that was something entirely different from from what I was doing before, and I feel like I feel like all of those things were things that I wouldn't have guessed I was doing next, you know, like it's the old, like in, in hindsight, it all makes sense. At the time it was like what is going to happen next? What am I doing? You know, and moving on from things before, I think, before I had somewhere to step onto next was really what I always did. I never really waited until I had it all figured out. I don't know if that's a good plan, I don't know if I'm recommending that to anyone but I, but but that's what I did.
Julie: 10:53
Yeah, why do you think? What is it about you that has made you have these diverse experiences? Because, like you said, when you leave one, you don't know where you're going next, and so how does it turn out to be something so different?
Kelsey: 11:05
I remember for years and years and years wondering, like what makes me good at anything?
Kelsey: 11:11
Like why do I keep getting picked to be the captain of the team, to be, you know, valedictorian, to be this, to be that, when really I have no good reason to be the person in all of these places so many times?
Kelsey: 11:24
I mean part of that was a was a kind of underestimation of my capabilities early on I think a lot of people have that until you have a bit of a track record.
Kelsey: 11:35
But later on, I think the reason that I was able to adapt and go into different industries which were just primarily my interest was because I realized what I do well isn't really about the business or the industry specifically. And when I introduce myself I say I'm a creator who deeply values intimate connection. So if what I'm interested in involves something that's creative or innovative or or a little bit frontier or potentially five years too early, and if I can be intimately connected either with the team, with the idea, with the space, in a way that when I wake up in the morning I really think that what we're doing could change things, then what I happen to do well, which is have ideas and build teams and how to just stick my neck way out, can be applied to just about any industry, to just about any arena, provided I have those two things the creative outlet and this intimate connection to it.
Julie: 12:40
Interesting. And it is sort of interesting because I think of, like, building roads, as there is something creative about it. Although I understand it's very technical, you've got to do it right. So like let's put that as a baseline, but there is something that's like you're making something that wasn't there before. You're like there is and there's something big about it, like big equipment, big jobs, long term kind of things right, and it's sort of interesting because there's a string that like comes through everything that you've done, I think, is that like that big kind of vastness and that creativity, with probably like the technical underpinning.
Kelsey: 13:23
Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, the one of my favorite things to do is to go back and drive on the roads that I've built and in the neighborhoods that I created and I named the streets and I designed how the houses would sit and all these kind of things, because, you're right, it's big and it's still very creative. So big I guess I don't know. I think part of that is because I feel like I live in the future a little bit. I do feel like I'm living five years from now or 10 years from now, where I can see it already as big as it can be, and I suppose it's. I've never set out to be like I'm going to be the biggest this thing, or it's not good enough unless it's big. It just so happens that when you're early enough to any industry, you're early enough to any neighborhood, or you know early enough to any given thing, um, you happen to wind up being kind of big, but the you know, the risk in that is what has also happened, which is, if you're too early, you can be absolutely not big at all because there's no market, you know. So it is, um, it's both. And, uh, I think, I think, for anyone who's listening, who's looking at the, you know what might be their next idea or what might be their thing that they can apply themselves to, or like what's their secret sauce.
Kelsey: 14:46
I would, I would kind of summarize it into a couple of quick things. To your point, find that silver thread. Like what is the thing that goes across all the things you were always interested in. Like this has been me since I was eight. This is nothing new to anyone who knew me then. Um, even when I started the psychedelic drug company, you know that was not a surprise. I'm thinking I'm having a big coming out party and everybody's going to be shocked and everyone's going. Yeah, that totally makes sense. I'm like, oh, so there is that for me. You know that creative aspect. So find your thing. That was your silver thread.
Kelsey: 15:21
And then the other thing is, you know, with respect to business acumen, like I really do like the numbers, I really do like the math, I really do like the kind of detail, so for me, that being a part of it's important. So for anyone who's thinking about the aspect of what's the business structure, think about the kind of the framework that you like to operate in. Are you a solo person. Do you like to work with teams? Do you like things that are highly data specific? Do you like things that need research and that really helps to narrow down the field into? Okay, here's a few things, here's a way, here's something I know that I do specifically well and that can make it feel a little bit more approachable when you want to go and do the next thing, want to go and do the next thing.
Julie: 16:07
Yeah, I think that makes a lot like the, the idea of, yeah, are you a solo person, are you a team person, are you introvert or extrovert? Like, how do you leverage the things? That are innate about you to the opportunities that you could pursue.
Kelsey: 16:24
And I think, be honest about what you're terrible at. Like, look, if someone comes to work for me during the interview, I'll say, like you know what's going to be terrible working with me? I don't read emails. That's going to make you frustrated. I will read the first three lines, but if it's like scrolling down, man, that's going to be tough for you and tough for me, because I really want to hear what you have to say. You know all of the kind of things about being honest about ourselves and our own shortcomings and relaying those people to relaying that to the people around you or building a team around you in a way that that can support you. It took me way too long to figure that out, oh man.
Julie: 17:03
Cause you do need those people who are going to read the whole damn email and and pay attention to every single word and be like, uh, Kelsey, yes.
Kelsey: 17:13
Yes, and I love those people. I'm like, thank heavens I, you know, there was a woman on a team that I more recently built and, uh, I love the Enneagram and she was, she was a six and um, and so when we had this debrief about her whole team, she was only six, she was way out on her own and I forget the name of the sixes, but effectively, she's a detailed person who's going to highlight all the things that could go wrong, and I'm on the other end of the spectrum, being like low detail and never mind all the things that could go wrong. Everything must go right. You know, know, sunny days, and I remember the debrief. The person who was writing it was like, oh, the two of you are going to clash and it's you know what. No, I love the six and it was not interesting doing it.
Julie: 18:00
So six is the loyalist. They are mitted and security oriented, right. Yeah, so they're suspicious and anxious and responsible, which is, which is a very good counterpoint to the let's go fast and hard and big. And, and, yes, somebody tell me where the holes are in this plan.
Kelsey: 18:21
Yeah, so finding your like robin to the batman, or whichever analogy you want to use, and love them up for all the ways that they like, can frustrate you and demand of you things that are required for the scale of a business that took me a long time to figure out. I used to get a little frustrated. I used to you know or even not hire that person and just assume that my acumen would carry us forward, and that turns out not to be the case, you know.
Julie: 18:49
Right. Well, it's always interesting when you hit the wall of. It's like that kid in school that we all knew that never needed study because they were so smart Right, and they hit a wall. You know whether it was in high school or in university and they couldn't. They weren't as successful as they had once been.
Kelsey: 19:14
And it was sort of that like life altering, like what do you mean? What? What moment for them? Yeah, absolutely yes. I had that a couple of times, and even recently, you know, I think that's the other thing that people think about when they look around and they're starting their business or they want to scale something, and they look to other people and they go, oh, they did it this way. So that, therefore, that must be the way, and I always caution people to say, okay, great, like look at some maps, listen to Julie's show, listen, like set up your goals, think of all these different ways that a person can set themselves up and then really think about what's your way. Like, really think about what's your way, because doing it someone else's way, relying on different skills, might not be the best thing for you. You got to really pressure test that. And sometimes it's like look, it's embarrassing to be a person that people like oh, you must know that. And I'm like I don't know how to log into my own website.
Julie: 20:05
Right, I have somebody who can get us logged in. I've got the resources, but I'm not going to be the one.
Kelsey: 20:13
No, I don't know it, and that's not to say it's below me. It's like so many times. I want to log into my own website but I can't because I get all you know. So.
Julie: 20:25
One of the things I feel like yeah, one of the things I feel like I love about the sport of entrepreneurship is that the puzzle can be put together in so many different ways. There is no one right way and, and although there are maybe pillars of things that you're going to do, at some point, you know it's figuring out for you what's the best and fastest way.
Kelsey: 20:46
Absolutely. And then I think it's also a little bit like when it doesn't work yeah, I've had a lot of that like I think people are often surprised at how many times I have been taken out at the knees um, when it does not work, to take ownership of the parts that you're responsible for it's actually my favorite part. So like, sift through the bones and the guts of it and go, oh boy, girl, there, there it is, that's exact, come on now. But also to to recognize like we're all human and times change fast and tech changes fast and people move fast and no one knows what's coming around the corner.
Kelsey: 21:29
And to your earlier point sometimes you just happen to be the lucky person at the right place at the right time. That that, uh, and hey look, I have outworked people and not one. That's happened, you know, um, and that is a little bit of luck of the draw. But what I do know is that if you do stick with it, if you're, if you're willing to adapt, if you're willing to lose and go great, that was a loss, put it on the board, let's move on. What's the next thing? Then? Ultimately, you're more likely to succeed if you stay on the field.
Julie: 22:05
Yes, yes. And what would you say? I mean, that's obviously a big lesson You're more likely to succeed if you stay on the field. What other things would you say you've learned from the losses?
Kelsey: 22:20
It's tremendously important. First, I'll talk about it functionally. I'll talk, you know, like organizationally. I'll talk about personally, organizationally, really understanding cash period, like understand your cash, don't hide away from it, it's coming either way, you know. It's like if you have cancer, you have it, whether the doctor's told you or not.
Kelsey: 22:49
Understanding cash Number one. Number two is having like a great team around you of lawyers and accountants and people who can be great advisors for when things don't go right because they won't always and having having a real, like trusting relationship with those folks. And then finally, reminding yourself and this is a lesson, this is me talking to myself reminding yourself that the people who work with and for you are amazing and it's not your job to save them. If the business is over, end it gracefully, try and help those people land, do all the right things for everyone, but don't like, if you know it's over, don't try and like, just keep it going for the people, just that, that, because they're under a tremendous amount of stress. If it's not going great, people will start to leave. You know, like I think that part around business as family is tricky business. You know, when these people become so close to you, especially founders who have, you know, the right-hand person and then your right-hand person and now you have 20 people. Now you have 50 people, and they were the second in.
Kelsey: 24:05
You can feel like you can't let them go move them on set them sales. You can feel like you can't change things because so I'd say those things have been. You know, things I've learned in the downs that have gone right. These are some lessons for me. And then, on the personal side of things, I mean having a group of trusted friends. You are one of them who you can really be candid with and say, hey, here's what's happening for me. Because, um, you know this, like it's lonely at the top, I don't care about if you're at the top or the middle or like wherever you are. If you're leading people or you have a dream, you need the people who can check you, support you and cheer for you. You need, you know you need some front row foam finger friends who are going. I believe in your idea. When it's just you know, you and your friend who believe in it, um, yeah, that would be my advice.
Julie: 25:08
I think those are the friends too. That can be. Those are the friends also. That can be the ones that sort of take the foam finger and give you a solid poke when they don't think you're maybe looking as big as you should be, or, uh, when you maybe seem like he could be a little stuck.
Kelsey: 25:26
Oh, absolutely, I mean, I appreciate. I appreciate that about you. I'll call you out straight out, live on your own podcast. You're one of the greatest people to be like hey, are you doing? Okay? Like I don't really know. I think maybe this is the time for you to have a look at this. And you know, certainly the people who work for you are unlikely to say, hey, I think we're headed in the wrong direction, or hey, I think we're headed in the wrong direction, or hey, I think this is happening. And oftentimes, as entrepreneurs, we tend to protect our family from what's going on when things get hard, because we don't want them to be frightened or feel any kind of insecurity. So we kind of lose access to that part of our support network and ultimately it is other entrepreneurs who get many parts of the story that can, that can help and who have tremendous resources.
Julie: 26:18
Yeah, that's good. What's been the hardest part for you of these transitions?
Kelsey: 26:25
I mean every single time there's been a transition, it's not been like a graceful slowdown to a nice easy landing. I've never been like a grand planner in that way. The first one ended, yeah, a bit more of a firework show, a dumpster fire. What that someone threw some fireworks into is usually kind of how it feels for me.
Kelsey: 26:46
Um, the first one ended like, really, because, because I had three kids, I was commuting back and forth, I got cancer, and I was like suicidally depressed and couldn't go on. So that was a pretty straightforward ending, you know, it just had to. Um. The next one ended because we ran out of cash, like there was no market, so just too early. Um, the next one ended mostly because I had young children and I couldn't fly around the planet speaking constantly, because I, you know, it just wasn't conducive to my new lifestyle.
Kelsey: 27:22
Uh, the next one ended because my board of directors shut me down. You know, going public, you lose control, and I just got a phone call one night that tomorrow, we're firing everyone, and I had like a team of 26 people, um, with I don't know 15 or 17 external full-time consultants as well, so that was like wow, okay, firing myself and everyone tomorrow. So most of them were pretty swift, pretty, pretty vicious, and what I've learned, though, is I need a minute, like I'm great in crisis, so not a problem, the house is burning, I'm on it, let's fire the people, let's make sure we get this, let's land them well, let's find them jobs. You know all the things. I'm great. I'm great at landing the burning plane, but as soon as I'm back on the ground, I need to take a minute to grieve the loss of the dream.
Kelsey: 28:22
You know, to grieve the loss of the thing that I wanted to build that, you know, either got realized and was over and I was just like like, oh, it's kind of like sending your kids off to school like you did your part, damn um. Or you never got to finish the story right. Like psychedelics and that company for me, are so close to my heart. It feels like I wrote the first two chapters and then they just like pulled the back end of the book off. Yeah, the grieving process has been really important.
Kelsey: 28:57
And then the harvest, like talk under your arm, whatever you can. That's when I'm like OK, who are my people? Stay in touch with them. What did I get? This, you know, and just start, start running for the next thing. And there's no shame in it. You know I've met so many women, like women in particular, who have all this shame about a thing they started and it didn't go well, or it wasn't what they thought or I don't know. It's just, it's a part of the game. In the same way that sometimes when you play Scrabble, you get the q like everybody's got the q and you got stuck with it until the end of the game
Julie: 29:33
And have no U and I'm not happy about it. Yeah.
Kelsey: 29:38
It's just, you can see the guy with the U and you're going like come on, man. So it happens. But again, you know, if you want to avoid all of that, do nothing. If you want the potential of something great happening, show up and give it a shot yeah,
Julie: 29:56
Yeah, and it is, the richest ground for learning is when things don't go the way you want them to go.
Kelsey: 30:04
Oh, absolutely like now, when the next thing I want to do there is it's so much quicker to rule things out, rule things in, figure out who my early team is, figure out when we're going to check in, and be like wait a minute, this isn't working, let's get off this train, let's get on a new one. You know, I just I kind of wish I could take 48 year old Kelsey's brand and give it to 26 year old Kelsey and be like go girl, just go Like. Here's 20 years of tuition.
Julie: 30:36
Yeah, but on the other hand, you know it, at 48, you're not 68, you're not 78, you're 48.
Kelsey: 30:45
I know that's the other part. That's so true. I mean, age is so interesting to me. I look at pictures of myself when I was 26 and going and trying to like borrow 10 million dollars at the bank for this land development and at the time I was like, why is this so hard? Why won't they give me the money? And I'm like, oh, darling you, wow, no wonder it was so hard, like you didn't know what you didn't know. Um, I love this part. I love this 50 year old realm. Um, so much grace to it, so much clarity to it. There's just so much kindness and like. Um, I can do really difficult things, really gracefully.
Julie: 31:31
I think that's so important, the idea that, yeah, it doesn't. You're not leaving carnage in your wake, you've been able to do it, you know, with love, with kindness and with grace.
Kelsey: 31:47
And that goes a tremendously long way. You know, again, if you bring it back to, you want to build the next thing. If somebody is listening today and they did a thing, or this is their first time, or they had a corporate job and now they're thinking about what's next and they're in their 40s going, is it too late? Or 50s thinking oh my gosh, like what am I thinking about? Oh my God, what better time.
Kelsey: 32:10
I'm so excited for you, you know, because we can lead with a kind of skill and acumen that was previously inaccessible, just because we hadn't paid life's tuition, we hadn't paid our dues, and this part is like it's like a really beautiful carpet laid out for us, so we'd just get to walk along. It's still going to be tricky, you know. You might never wear the wrong heels, but you know how to write yourself a bit, you know. And I think the other thing is something I've struggled with a long time and I often like to share it just because it's so important and I still sometimes struggle with it is the idea of saying no. You know, the idea of saying no to the thing that you know in your soul is not the right fit the idea to say no to like the relationship or the staff member or the contract, or like if you know it, please trust yourself.
Kelsey: 33:14
You know, and in the inverse. If you know it's gonna be great, please trust yourself. You know, in the middle of the night, when you're staring at the ceiling and you're crying, you're're thinking what the hell did I get myself into? If you know it in your soul, keep going.
Julie: 33:35
I think that is such great advice to really trust yourself and learn what those signals are and take that trust and lever yourself forward into new and great things. Well, thank you so much for joining me. I can't wait to see what you trust yourself with next and where you head off to on this big adventure we're all on and I'm really glad we got to have this conversation today.
Kelsey: 34:05
Thanks for having me, Julie. It's been a delight. I'll keep you posted. You'll be in the front with a foam finger on it. I'll be looking forward to the cheers and pokes
Julie: 34:13
Perfect. I love it. Thanks so much, Kelsey
Kelsey: 34:18
Thank you.
Julie: 34:21
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